01.03.2019

Conversation with a racist Neopagan

Conversation with a racist Neopagan
March 1, 2019

The following text will give an insight into the colonialist mindset of racist Neopaganism towards Hellenismos, making use of an extract from an online "conversation" between the Greek Admin/Operator of the Facebook page "Hellenismos" and a racist Neopagan that trolled the page in the comment section.
Published on this blog with the permission of the Admin/Operator of the Facebook page "Hellenismos". The text below originates from the Facebook page "Hellenismos." [Link]
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I want to share with you extractions from my "conversation" with Julian Lozan, an adherent of a modern ideology, who was trolling this site [Hellenismos] for many hours and not for the first time, as you will see. He trolled the site under another name, 4 years ago. Our "conversation" lasted many hours and ended two hours ago. But he was not the only troll. "John Thanatos" was banned for a racist comment ("it was uite [sic] easy to pinpoint your lack of knowledge, are you a Black person by any chance?") and for posting the exact same message on different posts, a link to a book (PDF) about Homosexuality in ancient Greece that is written by a Greek-speaking Christian author and politician who relativizes the Hellenic ethnocide and who in the past promoted a book of the supporther of the "Greek military junta" (1967-1974) and Holocaust denier Konstantinos Plevris.* "André Maga", a conspiracy theorist (this site is controlled by George Soros, so watch your back), was the third troll and the "support" team of the other two. All three of them belong to the same Facebook group, posted similar messages and started to promote their group in the comment fields of many posts, calling all people here, who do not belong to the non-existent "mediterranean race," corrupt parasites.
So, even though Julian Lozan was trolling, I did not ban him straight away.
Why? Because he gave me the opportunity to show to us, especially to the young people, how important it is to overcome monotheism's colonization of our imagination, how important it is to take a stand against neopagan antihellenism, racist misanthropy and ideology. And why we need to defend Hellenismos, our tradition, against the many forms of religious and secular political, cultural and other kinds of monotheism, who aim to instrumentalize our culture to satisfy their own needs. Why we need to stay human.
Julian Lozan shows us where irrationalism can lead, what antihumanism means, and that monotheism is not only religion, but also culture, virtue system, ideology, economy, has taken so many new forms, but the core is always the same. So I thanked him and I banned him, after the conversation came to an end (he trolled at least three posts). So enjoy the following extractions, because there will not be another conversation like this (from now on trolls and spammers will be banned immediately and without any advance warning), and learn from them.
I apologize for any typos. English is not my mother language.

*: https://www.facebook.com/HellenicTradition/posts/2037093059692217?__tn__=-R (Post from February 27, 2019)

[The extractions were saved by the Admin in the form of a dialog. The person "Me:" in text is the Admin of the Facebook page "Hellenismos". He often refers to Julian Lozan as "You".]
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1. POST (from February 21, 2015)
"Your questions can not always get answered, because I´m short of time. I hope you understand. You can ask Hellenes many questions on the Site of Facebook Group "Hellenic polytheistic Community".
[Extracts without smileys]

https://www.facebook.com/HellenicTradition/posts/763209677080568?comment_id=766479090086960&reply_comment_id=2038114629590060&notif_id=1551291549908471&notif_t=feed_comment&ref=notif

Julian Lozan [4 YEARS AGO under the name "Aegean Genes"]: "I truly recommend everyone reading this to totally stay away from anything involving that group, the 'Hellenic" Polytheist community' is nothing but a bunch of Homosexuals and Parasitic Vermin that only wish to defame, smer and create a wedge between the true People of Greece, and their Gods and the Caucasian people as a Whole... it is run by a really Tyranical Homosexual that is not even Greek, Mediterranean or of European descent."

Me: "May be you don´t understand what we mean by 'Hellenismos'. We mean the indigenous hellenic cultural tradition, the non-christian hellenic worldview, not Romiosyni nor neo-greek Antisemitism or Homophobia in general. We are very sensitive to antihumanistic opinions ... Maybe you should search for an ariosophic Group. Your racial mysticism does not bother us. Its like posting hinduistic texts in christian groups."
...

Julian Lozan [1 day ago under the name "Julian Lozano"]: "that is because you are not Greek or follow the Religion of Ancient Hellas Greece at all."

Me: "Well, it is true that we Hellenes have nothing to do with the "Hellenism" in your mind. Why don't you search for a site of your 'Hellenism'? We obviously have no interest in the different 'Hellenisms' of modernity."

2. POST (from February 18, 2019)
"Keep your head up high"
[Extracts without smileys]

https://www.facebook.com/HellenicTradition/photos/a.615334891868048/2024287210972802/?type=3&theater

Julian Lozan: "You are Hellene only if your Mom and Dad are Hellene."

Me: "Thales was of Phoenician origin, Aisopos of Thracian or Phrygian origin, Porphyrios of Syrian origin, Iamblichos also of Syrian origin, Julian of Roman origin, Alexander IV. Aigos was of Macedonian and Sogdian origin."

Julian Lozan: "the farthest people you mentioned were the Romans"

Me: "Thracians or Sogdians."

Julian Lozan: "Romans, and they still were very close to the Greeks as a Race"

Me: "The concept of "race" did not exist back then."

Julian Lozan: "If Race did not exist in Ancient Greece, then Ichor and being descendants of Gods."

Me: "Ichor is myth.The Gods have no blood and we surely are not descendants of Gods. That's hybris."

Julian Lozan: "Race, Genetic lineage and descent were FUNDAMENTAL in Ancient Greece."

Me: "Genetic studies in the late 20th century refuted the existence of biogenetically distinct races, and scholars now argue that 'races' are cultural interventions reflecting specific attitudes and beliefs that were imposed on different populations in the wake of western European conquests beginning in the 15th century ... The modern meaning of the term race with reference to humans began to emerge in the 17th century." (ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA: Race)

Julian Lozan: "Troas is the Ancient land of TROY, right next Phrygia in the same Anatolia which is present Turkey... I am surprised that, you don't know any of this."

Me: "Troja is right next to Phrygia?" [showing you a map]

Julian Lozan: "Ancient Greek DNA is the same as Modern Hellenic DNA, so you are quite wrong on all accounts." [citing sciencemag.org] "Ancient Hellas, is the Mother and Father of all, Civilization creating Humanity, which as we know, comes only from the Mediterranean Race."

Me: "Your conclusions and interpretations are irrelevant. It is science that counts. It should trouble you that we have no Greek word for "race" but anyway ... Yes, I wonder why so many people do not know that the Greeks founded the chinese culture, the aboriginal culture, indian culture and even egyptian culture."

Julian Lozan: "Genetics, Archaeology, Science in General all agree and support the Ancient Histories, Myths and Legends."

Me: "You should give a lecture at the Harvard University, your speech would make the professors loose their mind, this revelation of facts, the sweet bliss of knowledge you have, your understanding of history and biology would revolutionize biology and history. Incredible."

Julian Lozan: "I showed you several reports, you gave none, because you have nothing to support your ideas... If anyone is none Scientific is you... Science is a Goddess herself you know, she rejected you with my posts."

Me: "Yes, Encyclopaedia Britannica is no 'report', nope. Oh and about the 'tidal wave of mounting Genetic evidence about the Ancient Greeks', that was never our topic. You gave me links and your irrelevant interpretation, nothing more. And know you think a Goddess is acting through you. Hybris."

Julian Lozan: "and your evidence to support anything you claim??... No where... You have 0 back up. If anything is destroying our Chances of returning it is ilogical ...  I simply told you what the links said you."

Me: "First you claimed: 'You are Hellene only if your Mom and Dad are Hellene'. Then I told you that many Hellenes had no Hellenic mother or father or any Hellenic parent at all. Then you wrote things like 'the farthest people you mentioned were the Romans' (not the Thracians or Sogdians) or 'Persia had a Greek' origin, then you posted an article of sciencemag, in which the word 'race' does not appear, in order to 'prove' your 'Mediterranean Race', ignoring the fact that the message of the article is: 'Now, ancient DNA suggests that living Greeks are indeed the descendants of Mycenaeans, with only a small proportion of DNA from later migrations to Greece.' No 'race' (read Britannica), no 'Mediterranean Race' ... your 'Mom and Dad'-statement is wrong, otherwise Alexander IV. Aigos could not have been a Hellene (according to your ideology) and 'Greek DNA' was never a topic."

Julian Lozan: "well if you cannot understand the meaning of DNA and its Biological implications in the word 'Race' that is not my problem, just because you refuse to accept the word, does not mean it is not a functional word, used by the Ancients, and used to this very day ... DNA = Mediterranean Race, you will have to deal with it, the Science in those links was pretty clear, Ancient Greeks are the same then as they are now [link to Wikipedia: Mediterranean Race] ... 'Now, ancient DNA suggests that living Greeks are indeed the descendants of Mycenaeans, with only a small proportion of DNA from later migrations to Greece'.

Me: "Prove it to me. Give me the Greek word for 'race' ... Either a Hellene must have a Hellenic mother and father to be a Hellene or Alexander IV. Aigos was not a Hellene. "Now, ancient DNA suggests that living Greeks are [...]'. Yes, it suggests that we, today's Greeks, 'are indeed the descendants of Mycenaeans'. Where is your 'race', where your 'mediterranean race'? ... regarding your wikipedia article [I cite]: 'The Mediterranean race (also Mediterranid race) is one of the sub-races into which the Caucasian race was categorised by most anthropologists in the late 19th to mid-20th centuries.' Now I cite again from Britannica: 'Genetic studies in the late 20th century refuted the existence of biogenetically distinct races, and scholars now argue that 'races' are cultural interventions reflecting specific attitudes and beliefs that were imposed on different populations in the wake of western European conquests beginning in the 15th century ... The modern meaning of the term race with reference to humans began to emerge in the 17th century'. Do you get it now?"

3. POST (from February 28, 2019)
"Rather than treating Greek ethnic groups as 'natural' or 'essential' - let alone 'racial' - entities, he emphasises the active, constructive and dynamic role of ethnography, genealogy, material culture and language in shaping ethnic consciousness. An introductory chapter outlines the history of the study of ethnicity in Greek antiquity."
An extremely interesting subject! [Presenting the book "Ethnic Identity in Greek Antiquity" by Jonathan M. Hall.]
[Extracts without smileys]

https://www.facebook.com/HellenicTradition/posts/2039652356102954?__tn__=-R

Julian Lozan: "Are we suppose to take this no body's book as a serious study of Ancient Greek Religion, Myth, History and Morality??"

Me: "Why not? He is well respected in the scientific community, his methology is good. What are your scientific reservations?"

Julian Lozan: "I don't think he exists, a person so well educated would not be so ignored."

Me: "Then maybe Walter Friedrich Otto did not exist too."

Julian Lozan: "I stand corrected on this one, he does exist. I am reading his book at this moment and look at this, Hall's view may appear to be paradoxical. As he himself says,
'physical characteristics are for the most part genetically derived' ... Did you catch that?
'physical characteristics are for the most part genetically derived' ... Genetically derived!
.. Even he agrees, in other words Genetics = Race."

Me: "So he exists now because he alleged supports your 'race'. A very scientific behavior. But I never denied the 'physical characteristics'. Of course, your eyes, hair etc. are 'genetically derived'. But Hall does not project his modernity onto the Greeks, that's why he mentions no 'Greek race' nor your 'Mediterranean race'. So you use again a text that has nothing to do with your 'race' to prove your race. 'While physical characteristics are for the most part genetically derived, attitudes towards such characteristies are historically and culturally situated ... Colour only came to replace religion as an important indicium from about ca. 1680, when many slaves had already converted to Christianity'."

Julian Lozan: "Well, Mediterranean Race is a fact, although the Ancients called it the Children of HELLAS, OI, or the HERACLIDAE, various ways convey the same meaning... RACE [posting again Wikipedia article: 'Mediterranean Race'] ... An attitude about something Axiomatic, Palpable such as Blood, DNA, aka Race, the Greeks not only knew about, but honored above themselves, hence we have the reverence for Ancestry in the Myths."

Me: "Before posting something, read it. [Citing from the mention wikipedia article]: 'The Mediterranean race (also Mediterranid race) is one of the sub-races into which the Caucasian race was categorised by most anthropologists in the late 19th to mid-20th centuries.' Making false claims twice does not make them right. From Britannica, again: "Genetic studies in the late 20th century refuted the existence of biogenetically distinct races, and scholars now argue that 'races' are cultural interventions reflecting specific attitudes and beliefs that were imposed on different populations in the wake of western European conquests beginning in the 15th century ... The modern meaning of the term race with reference to humans began to emerge in the 17th century" (ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA: Race). And now: Give me finally the Greek word for 'race'."

Julian Lozan: "physical characteristics are for the most part genetically derived"

Me: "But I never denied the 'physical characteristics'. Of course, your eyes, hair etc. are "genetically derived'. AGAIN: WHERE IS THE GREEK WORD FOR 'RACE'?"

Julian Lozan: "ΑΓΩΝΑΣ" [You deleted this post.]

Me: "αγώνας means fight, athletic competition. Not 'race'. Learn Greek first and then we can talk about it."

Julian Lozan: "ΦΥΛΉ, from which words come Family ... You don't know Greek either or else you would know ΦΥΛΉ."

Me: "So, according to you the 10 phules of Kleisthenes are 10 athenian races? Are you serious?"

Julian Lozan: "ΦΥΛΉ, is the name for Race, DNA, Ancestry, Familia in Greek, don't know where you get those other meanings from, surely Kleisthenes had the correct view then! ... It seems Cleisthenis would agree, that ΦΥΛΉ means... RACE. 'The democratic reforms introduced by Cleisthenes include a bold restructuring of Athenian political loyalties. Until now there have been four long-established tribes, based on links of clan, region and religion'....Links to Clan aka (Family, ΦΥΛΉ) Region aka Genepool, Religion aka Morality, Belief in Sacred Ancestry, origins etc".

Me: "The 'δέκα φυλές' of Kleisthenes. Phule means: 'Greek phylē tribe, phyle' (Merriam Webster: phyle), 'a tribe or clan of an ancient Greek people such as the Ionians' (Collins Dictionary), 'from Greek phulē tribe, clan' (British Dictionary: phyle), 'Any of various social groups or political divisions within a community, based on or sustained by ties of kinship; a tribe, a clan; especially a major political division in Attica created by the reforms of Cleisthenes (507 b.c.) and having various administrative, military, and social functions' (Oxford living dictionaries: phyle). If you had studied the history of the word you would know that the modern meaning race was given to this word in the 19th century. The Christians not only added a new, modern meaning to this wird, but they also used it in 1835 to create a new word: φυλετισμός (phyletismos), 'racism' (Georgios Babiniotis: Ετυμολογικό λεξικό της νέας ελληνικής γλώσσας, p. 1567, 1st ed., Athens 2009). It's really painful to read your posts."

Julian Lozan: "ΦΥΛΉ, ΑΓΏΝΑΣ, ΕΘΝΙΚΌΤΗΤΑ, take your pick, they all mean Clan, Tribe, Race, Family, you know, everyone else except you ... ΦΥΛΉ, ΑΓΏΝΑΣ, ΕΘΝΙΚΌΤΗΤΑ, take your pick, they all mean Clan, Tribe, Race, Family, you know, everyone else except everyone else that was not Greek, Hellene or Mediterranean, such as Phoenicians, Egytians and Anatolians. I don't recall Greeks calling such people 'Barbarians'."

Me: "ΦΥΛΉ (tribe), ΑΓΏΝΑΣ (fight), ΕΘΝΙΚΌΤΗΤΑ (a modern word, created 1833 Georgios Babiniotis: Ετυμολογικό λεξικό της νέας ελληνικής γλώσσας, p. 404, 1st ed., Athens 2009). And the word Barbar, do you know what that even means (bar-bar)? It is so funny, you are trying to explain Greek language to a Hellene and you have no idea."

Julian Lozan: "You are no Hellene but you wish ... ΦΥΛΉ meaning Family, Clan, Race... Ancient Greeks had no such word for English 'Race' but they HAD THE MEANING, much more accentuated than us today, since Blood was Sacre to Ancient Greeks."

Me: "A non-Hellenic can not judge the Hellenicity of the Hellenes. But you know what: Let's have our conversation from here from now on in Greek!"

Julian Lozan: "Then don't Judge it, since you are not it ... What you are just going to copy and paste ... Either way, you cannot find anything to support your ideas. It has been clear that you cannot handle the fact of DNA and the Reverence to it that the Ancient Greeks had for it."

Me: "Why not, I fulfill all the criterias. I have Greek parents, I speak Greek, I participate in Hellenic ethos and worship the Gods. According to Herodotus (8.144), I am Hellenic. A member of the occident can not judge if indigenous people are indigenous. Hellenic tradition is only accountable to itself and not to foreigners like you ... By the way, Phoebus Levene was actually the one who discovered DNA in 1919."

Julian Lozan: "how are we suppose to know that, you dare not show your face, or give any cridentials. For all we know you are just a Troll. But I like Trolls so I am not judging you, but really. Face it, you cannot find a shrrad of evidence ne it Ancient or Academic to support your Ideas about Ancient Greece, while I have given you evidence and wonderful info to help you understand ... Ancient Greeks knew about DNA, before the Mesopotamians and Egyptians did, they called it... BLOOD."

Me: "Just like Hall did not exist. And who is the troll? Am I posting on your site or you on mine? You gave me no evidence. I gave you plenty of lexicons. And the good thing is, everyone can read it ... They did not have the technology to discover DNA."

Julian Lozan: "Gave you all the evidence: links, info, facts, Genetic studies all a Rational Human being needs to add 2 + 2 and come up with basic, Axiomatic facts about Ancient Greeks. Geneticists, Historians, Archaeologists all seem to agree, that Ancient Greeks were very reverent towards BLOOD aka DNA aka RACE aka CLAN, aka FAMILY."

Me: "You gave me your false interpretations and I give you lexicons and lexicons. Your lovely concept is a modern one (Greetings from Britannica)."

Julian Lozan: ""Británnica"? ... False interpretations"?... Face it you are a SORE LOSER No but seriously, It's not my fault you refuse to see Axiomatic facts friend, truth is that I have schooled you on the secret meanings and the Sacredness of Blood, and Hellenic Ancestry, on the Ancient DNA of the Greeks and their Greatness over all other cultures in Writing and Civilization, but naturally you lack the IQ to link such palpable facts, being British and all, or perhaps because they utterly destroy your Leftist ideals? Either way, goodnight and learn more about Ancient Greece, with a Scientific Mind and not with Blind modern Idealism. Ok ... In closing, everything we have been discussing summed up ends in this... Ancient Greeks were very reverent towards BLOOD aka DNA aka RACE aka CLAN, aka FAMILY... Beyond that we have little else to discuss, since Ancient Greeks were obviously very protective, very guarded about their Blood, Family and Genetic = (Parentage-Ancestry)... In essence, we the MEDITERRANEAN RACE... At least in Modern terms such HELLENIC ideal is seemlessly translated to. Ciao! ... In closing, everything we have been discussing summed up ends in this... Ancient Greeks were very reverent towards BLOOD aka DNA aka RACE aka CLAN, aka FAMILY... Beyond that we have little else to discuss, since Ancient Greeks were obviously very protective, very guarded about their Blood, Family and Genetic = (Parentage-Ancestry)... In essence, we the MEDITERRANEAN RACE... At least in Modern terms such HELLENIC ideal is seemlessly translated to. Ciao!"

Me: "Poor man. ΦΥΛΉ (tribe), ΑΓΏΝΑΣ (fight), ΕΘΝΙΚΌΤΗΤΑ (a modern word, created 1833 BabiGeorgios Babiniotis: Ετυμολογικό λεξικό της νέας ελληνικής γλώσσας, p. 404, 1st ed., Athens 2009). And the word Barbar, do you know what that even means (bar-bar)? It is so funny, you are trying to explain Greek language to a Hellene and you have no idea.
The 'δέκα φυλές' of Kleisthenes. Phule means: 'Greek phylē tribe, phyle' (Merriam Webster: phyle), 'a tribe or clan of an ancient Greek people such as the Ionians' (Collins Dictionary), 'from Greek phulē tribe, clan' (British Dictionary: phyle), 'Any of various social groups or political divisions within a community, based on or sustained by ties of kinship; a tribe, a clan; especially a major political division in Attica created by the reforms of Cleisthenes (507 b.c.) and having various administrative, military, and social functions' (Oxford living dictionaries: phyle). If you had studied the history of the word you would know that the modern meaning race was given to this word in the 19th century. The Christians not only added a new, modern meaning to this wird, but they also used it in 1835 to create a new word: φυλετισμός (phyletismos), 'racism' (Georgios Babiniotis: Ετυμολογικό λεξικό της νέας ελληνικής γλώσσας, p. 1567, 1st ed., Athens 2009). It's really painful to read your posts.
Before posting something, read it. 'The Mediterranean race (also Mediterranid race) is one of the sub-races into which the Caucasian race was categorised by most anthropologists in the late 19th to mid-20th centuries.' Making false claims twice does not make them right. From Britannica, again: 'Genetic studies in the late 20th century refuted the existence of biogenetically distinct races, and scholars now argue that 'races' are cultural interventions reflecting specific attitudes and beliefs that were imposed on different populations in the wake of western European conquests beginning in the 15th century ... The modern meaning of the term race with reference to humans began to emerge in the 17th century' (
ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA: Race). And now: Give me finally the Greek word for 'race'.
'While physical characteristics are for the most part genetically derived, attitudes towards such characteristies are historically and culturally situated ... Colour only came to replace religion as an important indicium from about ca. 1680, when many slaves had already converted to Christianity' (Hall).
So, according to all the above lexicons you are wrong, that's why you changed your words. You have schooled me only in the craziness of modernism and antihellenism. Because you are quite obvious that uneducated and your fetish 'race' harms the rational part of your psyche. Your whole ideological construct is a lie, based on phantasies and you are too scared to admitt it to yourself. I understand. I am not mad at you. You are the thoughts in your mind as we all are. I hope some day you will find the way to arete and heal your bad deed. Till then we will protect our culture from enemies like you, in gratitude, for people like you give us several reasons more to overcome monotheism's colonization of our imagination, just with one post. The only reason I did not ban you before for trolling was my intention emphasize this need. Thank you. You are dismissed."

The End